Did anyone else realize how clever and creative George Herbert is with this poem? First I noticed that his poem is in the shape of wings. Br. Tom told us in class that this is a buspoe poem-that is when the shape of a poem is intimately connected to the idea of a poem. Then, I noticed the title, in relation to the poem as a whole. Easter is all about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. In the narrow points in the wings, the lines read, "Most poor, " and, "Most thin." Both these phrases convey sad, low points, and then the wings broaden as the words become happier. I am simply amazed at how cleverly this poem was crafted. The poem is resurrecting from it's low points just like Jesus resurrected to give us eternal life. The last line in the poem reads, "Affliction shall advance me in flight," and that simply nails the idea that Jesus suffered and died to give us all eternal life. Anyone else see this connection? - cdu-c Mar 11, 2008
I thought that this poem was cleverly crafted. Herbert knew exactly how he wanted to portray the Resurrection of Jesus. By have the lines "most poor" and "most thin" at the narrow points Herbert is showing us that those things are miniscule compared to what Jesus does for us. Jesus has spread out his arms unto the world to save us and give us eternal life. That is another reasons why I think a few of the lines are expanded, because Jesus gave us everything. He gave us so much and Herbert wants to remind us how much Jesus gave.
It is interesting to think that the visual effects of this poem caught almost everyone's attention right away. I remember in class my eyes were automatically drawn to the page because it looked so intriguing. Herbert wanted his poem to stand out from the rest, and what better way to make it stand out than with it's format? - szd-c Mar 11, 2008
Not only did this poem form the shape of wings, but the stanzas also got smaller as the wealthy became poor only to rise back up again. The same happens in the second stanza where sickness starts off and then the lines get smaller as the character gets thin only to overcome the issue and go to victory as the stanzas widen out again. I take this as a excellent deviation from the norm because it really draws attention to the thematic details contained within the poem as the characters start of high and might, lose, and then rise back up to the top; it's the classic underdog story translated into poem form. You could honestly translate any underdog story into this poem and it would work which to me makes it great. Oddly, it reminded me of the Mighty Ducks movies that I watched when I was younger because the team always was riding high at the beginning of the movie only to lose a big game in the middle, but eventually train up and come out with the win in the end. This poem is about how you kind of have to go through bad times to get the good times because the bad times are learning experiences that ground you more as a person and consequently make the good times even better.
In this poem, George Herbert keeps talking about taking flight as birds which is the obvious sideways shape of the poem. What needs to be noticed though is that it is not one but two sets of wings supporting each other and helping each other through everything. The poem talks about leaning on one another to get through the hard times and the pain and helping each other through to victory and success. Overall, it is simply about overcoming obstacles, but overcoming those obstacles with others and not just by one's self; it is about uniting to succeed.- KRi-c Mar 12, 2008
I really did enjoy this poem too and think that the message was a major part of what I like about it. KRi talked about how the pome is really talking about the support that is necessary to make it through any type of struggle, and that this is represented by the wings in the poem. However, the shape of the poem also played a huge part in why I enjoyed it. But I don't know why just the shape made me like it more. Obviously, I was judging the "book by its cover" and even before we started to read it, I liked it more than i like other poems. The same is true if I were to come upon a poem thats just a paragraph with no type of line indentation, I judge it to be more boring even before I read it. This is a huge fault on my part that I wish I didn't have but does anyone else understand where I'm coming from?- ptr-c Mar 12, 2008
I thought that this poem was crafted beautifully. Not just the fact that the physical shape was interesting and different, but the way Herbert used the words to describe something that is usually indescribable. I think my favorite part of the poem has to deal with the last two lines concerning failing wings. "For, if I imp my wing on thine / Affliction shall advance the flight in me." The first real interpretation of these lines was that if he fails, the drive to succeed will come from pain and suffering. Not many people look to pain in that sense, but Christ was crucified and that drove straight to the resurrection, everlasting life. It's one of those hidden messages that we need to open ourselves up to actually understand and apply in our own lives, not to mention it's very inspiring. Another thing that I really liked was that, we never really associate Jesus with wings, at least I don't. It was an interesting twist. - bzw-c Mar 12, 2008
Though the poem would have still been decent without its unique picture structure, the picture of the poem made it truly interesting. The picture, served one purpose by obviously explaining the words of the poem better; this is similar to when people talk with their hands to explain things better. The picture of the poem also illustrated how Jesus permeates every aspect of our lives, just as he permeates every aspect of the poem, from the selected diction, to the rhyme scheme, to the exalting tone, and finally to the picture. The picture shows, from Herbert's perspective, how powerful Jesus is as the poem concerning him is so intricate, its shape on the page even serves a message. Remarkable how this was done. - TMc-c Mar 12, 2008
I'm not sure that Herbert intended the stanzas to like wings, but he certainly would have been pleased when they did. Almost everyone has talked about the growing triangle at the bottom of the stanza, but nobody has really mentioned what happens at the top. The fact that the top is wide is very significant to the overall poem as well. Both stanzas start with God at the top. "Lord, who createdst man..." "Thou didst so punish sin." As you read each stanza, the downward spireal fits perfectly with what is being said. In the first, God creates man in glory. Man, however, ignobly ruined what God gave him. Thus this section is a descent from the height of God to the baseness of man. The second stanza, though slightly different, works the same way. In this case, it is God's punishment that reduces the value of the narrator's life. The shrinking lines convey the sense that God's wrath is descending down upon those who sin. These thematic elements are extremely creative and I really don't see how Herbert could have made this poem significant if he hadn't structured it the way he did. - TRu-c Mar 13, 2008
"I'm not sure that Herbert intended the stanzas to like wings, but he certainly would have been pleased when they did."
I'm not sure how he couldn't have meant for them to look like wings to me this is something that has to be designed within the poem in order for it to come to true effect. He could have easily just had the wide base going to smaller and smaller lines and then expanding out again but if he just did that then everything would just be flush with the margins and you wouldn't have the wing pattern shown. In order to get the wing patter you have to indent it in a special way which shows that this just coundn't have come together by accident. Plus the whole theme of flight in both the title which specifically mentions wings and in the poem where wings and flight are mentioned numerous times shows that while making the poem the author was thinking about tying in the resurrection with flight and what better way to represent your prowess as a poet but by haiving the poem not only have good content about the subject but also be shaped like the subject at hand? - DGr-c
I thought that this poem was cleverly crafted. Herbert knew exactly how he wanted to portray the Resurrection of Jesus. By have the lines "most poor" and "most thin" at the narrow points Herbert is showing us that those things are miniscule compared to what Jesus does for us. Jesus has spread out his arms unto the world to save us and give us eternal life. That is another reasons why I think a few of the lines are expanded, because Jesus gave us everything. He gave us so much and Herbert wants to remind us how much Jesus gave.
It is interesting to think that the visual effects of this poem caught almost everyone's attention right away. I remember in class my eyes were automatically drawn to the page because it looked so intriguing. Herbert wanted his poem to stand out from the rest, and what better way to make it stand out than with it's format?
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Not only did this poem form the shape of wings, but the stanzas also got smaller as the wealthy became poor only to rise back up again. The same happens in the second stanza where sickness starts off and then the lines get smaller as the character gets thin only to overcome the issue and go to victory as the stanzas widen out again. I take this as a excellent deviation from the norm because it really draws attention to the thematic details contained within the poem as the characters start of high and might, lose, and then rise back up to the top; it's the classic underdog story translated into poem form. You could honestly translate any underdog story into this poem and it would work which to me makes it great. Oddly, it reminded me of the Mighty Ducks movies that I watched when I was younger because the team always was riding high at the beginning of the movie only to lose a big game in the middle, but eventually train up and come out with the win in the end. This poem is about how you kind of have to go through bad times to get the good times because the bad times are learning experiences that ground you more as a person and consequently make the good times even better.
In this poem, George Herbert keeps talking about taking flight as birds which is the obvious sideways shape of the poem. What needs to be noticed though is that it is not one but two sets of wings supporting each other and helping each other through everything. The poem talks about leaning on one another to get through the hard times and the pain and helping each other through to victory and success. Overall, it is simply about overcoming obstacles, but overcoming those obstacles with others and not just by one's self; it is about uniting to succeed.-
I really did enjoy this poem too and think that the message was a major part of what I like about it. KRi talked about how the pome is really talking about the support that is necessary to make it through any type of struggle, and that this is represented by the wings in the poem. However, the shape of the poem also played a huge part in why I enjoyed it. But I don't know why just the shape made me like it more. Obviously, I was judging the "book by its cover" and even before we started to read it, I liked it more than i like other poems. The same is true if I were to come upon a poem thats just a paragraph with no type of line indentation, I judge it to be more boring even before I read it. This is a huge fault on my part that I wish I didn't have but does anyone else understand where I'm coming from?-
I thought that this poem was crafted beautifully. Not just the fact that the physical shape was interesting and different, but the way Herbert used the words to describe something that is usually indescribable. I think my favorite part of the poem has to deal with the last two lines concerning failing wings. "For, if I imp my wing on thine / Affliction shall advance the flight in me." The first real interpretation of these lines was that if he fails, the drive to succeed will come from pain and suffering. Not many people look to pain in that sense, but Christ was crucified and that drove straight to the resurrection, everlasting life. It's one of those hidden messages that we need to open ourselves up to actually understand and apply in our own lives, not to mention it's very inspiring. Another thing that I really liked was that, we never really associate Jesus with wings, at least I don't. It was an interesting twist. -
Though the poem would have still been decent without its unique picture structure, the picture of the poem made it truly interesting. The picture, served one purpose by obviously explaining the words of the poem better; this is similar to when people talk with their hands to explain things better. The picture of the poem also illustrated how Jesus permeates every aspect of our lives, just as he permeates every aspect of the poem, from the selected diction, to the rhyme scheme, to the exalting tone, and finally to the picture. The picture shows, from Herbert's perspective, how powerful Jesus is as the poem concerning him is so intricate, its shape on the page even serves a message. Remarkable how this was done. -
I'm not sure that Herbert intended the stanzas to like wings, but he certainly would have been pleased when they did. Almost everyone has talked about the growing triangle at the bottom of the stanza, but nobody has really mentioned what happens at the top. The fact that the top is wide is very significant to the overall poem as well. Both stanzas start with God at the top. "Lord, who createdst man..." "Thou didst so punish sin." As you read each stanza, the downward spireal fits perfectly with what is being said. In the first, God creates man in glory. Man, however, ignobly ruined what God gave him. Thus this section is a descent from the height of God to the baseness of man. The second stanza, though slightly different, works the same way. In this case, it is God's punishment that reduces the value of the narrator's life. The shrinking lines convey the sense that God's wrath is descending down upon those who sin. These thematic elements are extremely creative and I really don't see how Herbert could have made this poem significant if he hadn't structured it the way he did. -
"I'm not sure that Herbert intended the stanzas to like wings, but he certainly would have been pleased when they did."
I'm not sure how he couldn't have meant for them to look like wings to me this is something that has to be designed within the poem in order for it to come to true effect. He could have easily just had the wide base going to smaller and smaller lines and then expanding out again but if he just did that then everything would just be flush with the margins and you wouldn't have the wing pattern shown. In order to get the wing patter you have to indent it in a special way which shows that this just coundn't have come together by accident. Plus the whole theme of flight in both the title which specifically mentions wings and in the poem where wings and flight are mentioned numerous times shows that while making the poem the author was thinking about tying in the resurrection with flight and what better way to represent your prowess as a poet but by haiving the poem not only have good content about the subject but also be shaped like the subject at hand?
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